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Finish this sentence:
When I see an Orthodox person, whether in real life or in the media, I immediately feel:
1. Defensive
2. Like family
3. Judged
4. Judgmental
5. Curious
6. Respectful
7. Embarrassed
8. Admiring
9. Irritated
10. Like proving I am Jewish too
(feel free to choose more than one response)
IRL, usually like family. In the media, usually embarrassed.
ditto what Rivki said.
IRL – Admiring; In the media – Curious
Respectful, admiring and also a little jealous. I'm not yet where I want to be with my own observances and I struggle with that daily. It's a visual reminder for me when I see an orthodox Jew of where I want to be but haven't yet made it.
I'm with Rivki.
Usually "all of the above"!
I'm with EJ– plus, like Shoshana on FB, like I want to let them know I'm Jewish too– I've heard it called "bageling" and I completely lose my mind- stalking them around the grocery store or Target. I have to control myself!!
Some funny combination of "like family" and "defensive". The balance tips based on whether the issue is about gender or not.
It depends on if the person is smiling. – MP
I LOVE this ("It depends on if the person is smiling") comment – thanks!
Like family. For the most part. And if any bad in the media, like that weird cousin who shows up and drinks too much.
Like family, with the twist that I know we're family and they generally don't. I don't feel like I have to prove anything, but I often wish there were an easy way to signal, although I am always afraid the warmth would not be returned.
Hmm.. That's where bageling comes in!
i'm with Savta!
respectful, like family, like proving I am Jewish too, but afraid they may not accept me because I am not as frum as them. (They don't know I keep a kosher home but they can see I am wearing slacks.)
There was a person asking for money for shabbos on Friday in front of the kosher butcher. I don't like to give tzedakah on the street but had an urge this time. The phrase "gemacht Shabbos" reached my heart. An obviously orthodox man walked in ahead of me and took out his wallet to give money. That was a signal to me that it was OK for me to do the same. Silly of me to need a signal? I don't know.
Well, if it's uncharted waters, no. I once took a bus from Lakewood, NJ (very orthodox town) to Boro Park (very religious/Chassidic town) in Brooklyn. I had no idea it was a "minyan bus" – ie, the same people ride the bus every day to work and they have an Orthodox minyan on the bus. So I'm just sitting there and they all start praying and hanging up this mechitza… I'm like, huh?? I'd never seen it before. We all have those moments. I just sort of waited to see what everyone else was doing and followed suit.
I love this story! The blog has talked a lot about how non-O Jews can feel weird and not know how to behave around O Jews (e.g. Saturday jogging)–but this was one of those what-to-do situations BETWEEN O Jews!
It happens every now and then to me. I'm from Cleveland, and the customs can be different from community to community, especially with how comfortable men and women mix in social situations. I try to wait and take my cues from others, and when I do, I always think: maybe this is what my non-Orthodox friends feel like in an Orthodox synagogue. But I have the advantage of knowing what to do about it. I always wish they would just be more comfortable following cues instead of worrying so much about goofing.
I did not mean how comfortable men and women mix.
I meant how comfortable men and women are mixing in social situations.
I've never been in an O synagogue. I would probably do a lot of research first to guess what would happen and what I should do. At the Western Wall in Jerusalem I felt out of place as well. I wasn't sure "whose rules" were in force. It is a holy place for some and a tourist stop for others, weird combination. Clearly the O women were doing specific things and behaving particular ways, but I didn't know if I was supposed to do those things out of respect for the O women, or out of respect for the place, or what. And if I didn't know WHY they were doing what they were doing it seemed weird to copy them, because maybe what they were doing was only valid for them. Or if they would resent that I wasn't doing what they were doing.
Hm. Guess it's not as simple as following cues…
curious. for sure.
Like family, albeit distant. And for me 'like family' is unfortunately not unambiguously complimentary.
Judged, if it's a story about O Jews judging.
Judgmental, if I feel like they are judging me and then also Defensive.
Curious, usually.
Respectful, when they are doing something respect-worthy. Otherwise no more nor less than anyone else.
Embarrassed, if they are doing something shameful and it's in mainstream media or situation.
Admiring and irritated, no more nor less than with anyone else.
Like proving I'm Jewish, only if we have an interaction of some kind, which happens about once every 10 years.
2, 3, 6 & 10
Knee-jerk reaction, if it's not someone I already know: I'm worried that I'll be judged and seen as not Jewish enough.
I fight this reaction, but it stems from the specific experience of spending my summers in New York City in the late '70s. One time, I was walking through Washington Square Park (I would have been 18 or 19) and was approached by a Hassidic-looking young man. As a young child I lived in the Williamsburg and had fond feelings for all the old Hassidic men I used to talk to when shopping with my mom. So I'm kindly disposed to answer this young man, who asks me, "Excuse me. Are you Jewish?" "Yes," I said. "No," he said. "If you were really Jewish, you wouldn't be dressed so immodestly. You would be live according to Halacha."
I have no idea what he's talking about. I look down at my utterly banal peasant style dress, with short sleeves and a tiered skirt that stops mid-calf. It seems pretty modest. I look around. I see there are several similarly-attired young men in this corner of the park, approaching people in the same way. "If you really want to learn what it is to be Jewish, come to this meeting . . ." and he hands me a flyer. Even as I'm walking away, he's saying, "You can learn how to live according Hashem's . . ."
I was baffled, but I was also, frankly, hurt. It can be an act of courage just to identify yourself as Jewish in the Bible Belt where I was then living. And here I was, feeling groovy and full of goodwill, and I admit to a stranger that I'm Jewish, and wham! I'm being criticized. Not only criticized, but denied a claim to authentic Jewishness.
Later that summer I read in the Village Voice about the Lubavitcher movement and the complaints of secular Jews about their aggressive proselytizing in public. Over the next few summers, I studiously skirt around groups of Lubavitchers, determined not be taken by surprise again.
I can't tell you how relieved I was when, decades later, I began encountering bits and pieces of the Chabad movement. Chabad seems to me, here in Cleveland at least, vastly kinder, gentler, more joyous and more forgiving than anything I ever saw or read about under the rubric Lubavitcher. (For example: the Chanukah Party Bus, the games and holiday stuff for kids at Chabad.org, the summer camps, and the stories of people traveling to far-off places who find unexpected welcome and comfort in a Chabad House.)
I understand that the Orthodox Movement contains several strands and that Chabad-Lubavitch does not represent all Orthodox Jews. But for decades after my encounter with the Lubavitchers in Washington Square Park, I was wary of Orthodox men. It was probably another 20 years before I realized that the general populace of black-hatted, bearded, tzitzi-wearing Orthodox men were NOT, in fact, just waiting for an opportunity to criticize my clothing and tell me what a bad Jew I was.
what a story. thanks for sharing it.
What EJ said – exactly 🙂
2, 5, 6, and 10. I actually feel much less defensive and like I have something to prove now that I live in an area with relatively few Jews (I used to live in Hancock Park in Los Angeles). Here we are more of a minority and so I think we all have warm and fuzzy feelings towards each other, like we all need to stick together. Or maybe it's just me thinking that way! I also randomly met our local Chabad rabbi in the neighborhood park with his kids and he was incredibly kind, open, and awesome, so now when I see other members of the community I sort of feel warm feelings towards them too, just based on my interaction with him.. 🙂
2,3,6,7,8,10
Wow, I apparently have a lot of feelings on this topic!
As an O Jew I feel badly when a fellow Jew feels uncomfortable and judged by me, just for the mere fact that I'm O and they're not. I like getting bageled. I don't generally start conversations with 'strangers' but I like when I'm targeted as a Jew who can be approached.
Do O Jews ever try 'bageling' non-O Jews? Would they be concerned that the person being bageled is not Jewish after all, or would they not do this for other reasons?
Yes, some of us do. I don't do it unless I'm pretty sure the person is Jewish. My main deterrent would be the fear that the person would think I'm nuts or nosy, or aren't interested in being identified as Jewish. But I've learned that people usually like it.
Do you think "bageling" is a pretty well-known term or would it be a good post topic?
I thought you made it up. I didn't know it is a word already out there for Jew-dentification. So it might be worth explaining, but the context here made the meaning pretty clear to me.
I will confess that I'm relieved you didn't make up the term yourself. I find it silly and not very descriptive. "Jew-dar" has an obviousness to it, in contrast (although I presume it was modeled on the term "gay-dar", which because of the perfect rhyme with "radar" made it so immediately understandable…but maybe that line of etymology is not part of your world in the first place).
And anyway I can't imagine that since you believe in a metaphysical, eternal Jewishness, that that would have anything to do with eastern-European-originated, historically-contingent BAGELS in the first place.
[FYI *I* consider bagels 'Jewish' because I don't buy the metaphysics and accept a much more diffuse and contingent understanding of what is Jewish….another discussion sometime.]
I'm gonna blog about this! Jew-dar is something else, but I'll include it…
I have no idea what "bageling" means. I'd appreciate a post on it