It appears that everyone wants to hear about large families (see yesterday’s comments).
So here’s my completely disjointed response to yesterday’s questions:
1. Some large families and some small families parent irresponsibly.
2. Some large families and and some small families find it hard to pay the bills.
3. Some Orthodox men begin their marriage by studying in kollel full-time (Kollel – a non-profit institution where married men study advanced Talmud full-time and receive a stipend to do so. It’s a Hebrew word that means “all-included” since the idea is that the families’ needs would be taken care of. Pronounced “KOE-lell.”)
4. Men who study in kollel receive a stipend for doing so. Many also receive help from parents.
5. Men who study in kollel typically do so for a temporary number of years (before they have a lot of kids) at which point they seek employment in the “regular” world.
6. Most kollel men that I know (agreed, this is anecdotal and unscientific) are incredibly helpful with bedtime, bathtime, grocery shopping, diaper changing, and the like.
7. Kollel life is not for everyone.
8. Using birth control is a concession in Jewish law, intended to be applied in certain circumstances and at certain times in one’s life. Using it too liberally or not liberally enough are both problematic in Jewish law, and therefore (weirdness alert) is done with the guidance and mentorship of a Rabbi – a huge factor in Jewish living that I talk about all the time (those of you who know me are smiling).
Is this weird?
Yeah, but if you have a Rabbi that you respect and are close to, there is seriously no more satisfying way to live life and make tough decisions with serenity, clarity, and wisdom.
Is it weird to talk to your DOCTOR about birth control? Sometimes, but you do it anyway, because you need guidance, right? Same deal.
I know Rabbis who have insisted that families use birth control even when they didn’t want to.
9. That having been said, having money or not is NOT a factor. The mother’s mental health is the key factor. Don’t you know people who have grown up with very little by way of materialistic stuff, but in a loving, happy home (whether large or small) who are so happy and well-adjusted?
Of course if you are incapable of supplying your family with basic needs, this is a problem, but chances are that will impact on the mental health of the mother.
10. Would you agree that many of the things we think we need money for are not our basic needs? Would you agree that our expectations are quite high? I know I’m in this boat. I think of how people were raised two or even one generation ago and am actually embarrassed.
11. Being poor is nothing to be ashamed about. The economy’s collapse proved that even really smart people with really expensive and impressive degrees could not scrape it together.
12. The reason birth control is not openly discussed in the religious world is because it is highly personal and considered immodest to be discussed casually. This is a good thing. The casual and open discussion of people’s most personal lives does not bode well for us. The first time a casual acquaintance asked me, “Are you guys done?” I almost passed out. That said, my friends and I all knew that it was there if and when we needed it, again, with the guidance of a Rabbi.
13. When you see families with “a lot of kids” – what do you think is their motivation? If they don’t seem to have enough money, or seem sapped and zapped, why do you think they do it? It can’t be easy, so what do you think is driving this?
14. Any husband who doesn’t help his wife is doing wrong in the eyes of Torah. This is true whether he thinks he’s doing a mitzvah by studying Torah when she needs him, or whether he’s off playing golf.
15. Tuition in today’s day schools is a very big problem, bigger than me, that people much wiser than me are trying to solve, and deserves its own attention. All I will say is that we, the parents, have created a monster by expecting a smartboard in every room, in-house, nutritious lunches, a speech, occupational, and whatever else kind of therapist available for free to each child in school, and many other amenities that were completely unavailable to the children of yesteryear. We have very high expectations, then reel at the bill. But again: this problem is way bigger than me, and I do not claim to have good answers.
16. I feel that raising a large family is the most ideal and beautiful way (again: when possible) to raise wonderfully well-adjusted, unspoiled children who will become the parents of the next generation.
Tips on how I, personally, manage my brood coming soon… 🙂
Ruchie, I loved this post! I just want to mention something about having a Rabbi's input regarding birth control. Sometimes it is very hard to examine our own selves and make very big life decisions, obviously some of the biggest being having more children. Usually, a mentor (in many cases Rabbi) is qualified and has a different vantage than the couple themselves. He can see a much larger picture including dynamics that a couple may subconsciously ignore and advise based on those. This is in contrast with a doctor, who only has a view limited to the mom's physical and emotional health. What many people outside of the religious community don't know is that birth control is also often advised if the DADS feel like their mental health will suffer. There is a lot taken into consideration when these decisions are made!
Personally, I am happy to have had my two kids and stopped. My first is on the autism spectrum and we did not know that until I was nearly due with number 2. Knowing how the risk of ASD is higher in subsequent pregnancies, we might not have had a second, had we known.
That said, I have two amazing kids. I totally scored on both of them. The ASD one is a mensch and quite high functioning. The younger one is developmentally typical, yet exceptional in a positive way in every way. Like I said, we totally scored.
That said, when we were having our babies, we would never have considered talking to anyone about birth control or number of children, and in fact, still wouldn't (although at 44, I don't think a Rabbi would be in such a rush to take away my BC.)
I felt like the decision was made for us because even though we were lucky with the first and second kids, we knew the odds were higher of having a more severely disabled child with each subsequent baby. At the time, we could hardy handle the ones we had with any sanity, and even now, I am spending my summer vacay sitting at my dining room table while my very able but also disabled son takes distance learning courses and I sit with him to keep him on track. Thank heavens there are not a bunch of little ones running around to distract further.
Anyways, I admire those who have large families, as I admire those who have small families. I know that to some extent it can get easier with more kids, since the older ones can help with the younger ones as well. I also understand the idea of leaving it up to god and accepting his will as our own. Can people afford it? Not so much my business. I agree that intentionally bilking any social system is wrong, but I also know that people who have lots of jewish babies are increasing our jewish population, while i am not, having just replaced ourselves. To some extent, I owe people with larger numbers of children a debt of gratitude, for helping to ensure in a tangible way that my descendants will have a world of Jews to connect to in following generations.
Wow, I space out on your blog for a couple days and I miss SO MUCH GOOD STUFF! Never again (bli neder).
You raise some very good points Ruchi (as usual). As a mommy of two energetic boys, 20 months apart, I do wonder how bigger families "manage." Many of my friends who are at the same stage in parenting also wonder this. Knowing that we can discuss this with our Rabbi is comforting to me.
I feel like Rabbis have probably "heard it all," and are able to put things in context much more than I am, with my limited experience.
Anyhoo, I've asked mothers of 6+ kids how they manage to give kids the attention they need, and different mothers have different methods. One mother I know gives each of her kids one day per semester that they can take off school and spend it exclusively with mom. Another mother I know involved her daughter with the Big Sister program at her school, so she gets lots of attention once a week. Also, different kids have different needs, and so being attuned to that is crucial, no matter the size of the family.
Tuition, hmm, that's something I am not looking forward to. Maybe they will have fixed it by the time my kids are bigger…!
Schwevy – I thought your comment was beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
Have the problem "fixed" by then? Don't hold your breath, Rivki! 🙂
Schwevy… what Ayelet said: Thank you!
onionsoupmix: I'd like to respond to you.
1. It sounds like you need to think about if the Rabbi you are currently using is the right fit. If the relationship is resentful, you either have issues with Judaism in general, or Orthodox Judaism in general, or this Rabbi is not your bashert. It may be time for a switch.
2. I wouldn't suggest that every Orthodox Jew whose child leaves the fold acts beautifully and commendably. Who am I to judge? I haven't walked a mile in their shoes – thank God. But Wendy's point is that this is a HUMAN thing. How do secular Jews behave when their kids "leave the fold" to become religious? Not always so well. How do Catholics react, etc, etc. How do Democrats react when their kids vote Republican? Oy va voy.
Finally – some openness on this topic! As someone in the yeshivish world, you can get the perception that its completely easy to just have kids every 13-24 months. After all, everyone else is doing it and seem to be managing just fine.
Whoa – definitely not the case. We had our first 9 months after we got married. And then we rushed to have our second, born less than 20 months after the first. Our new and already fragile marriage has definitely been put to the test (as have our bank accounts and our patience.)
After our second, one of the rabbeim we are very close to, actually called us to wish us mazel tov and very candidly asked me how far apart our kids are. I told him. He then proceeded to tell me about the talmudic sources from which he poskens that couples can use birth control for two years between children and encouraged us to follow that route if we wanted to for my health and our family's health. (this was for us, everyone should consult their own LOR). I got off the phone and told my husband and we were relieved….
The social pressure to have kids one after the other is extremely high in our world… BH there are rabbeim out there who see the whole picture and focus on what's right for a specific family. Me – I'm relieved to have a break, to be able to focus on my adorable kids (who are great friends) and to have the comfort to know that when we do have our next (beH) we will be prepared and ready for him or her.
Anon #2: I appreciate your sharing your experience. Found it interesting that you felt a lot of pressure to have more kids. I always felt pressure to have less.
And welcome to the blog!!