Rabbi Akiva Tatz is one of my all-time favorite authors. His works must be savored in small, focused, thoughtful doses, like a bar of very expensive chocolate.
I’ve been getting to know his Letters to a Buddhist Jew, as I lead two classes in a kind of book club. We’ve been on the book for about a year. Surprisingly, not everyone is as in love with the book as I am. For some, it’s too abstract; for others, it requires too much background knowledge; for others, it simply gives too much airtime to Buddhism.
I am breathtakingly in love with it.
Consider this excerpt:
A Jewish woman who has committed her life to Hinduism and yoga came to ask me some questions about Judaism. She happens to be firmly feminist in her views, and I presumed that separation of the sexes in Judaism was going to be an issue. I braced myself for the attack.
It never came. Her school of yoga always separates the sexes; they regard the mixing of men and women to be distracting and never allow it. She had absolutenly no problem with Judaism on this issue. If the yogis do it, it is wise and good.
…she has a hierarchy of value systems. Her yoga comes first, her feminism second (and her Judaism third). Now the higher system in the hierarchy defines the values before the lower; if a feature of yoga conflicts with a feature of feminism, yoga wiill win (and there is no need to change that when you get down to Judaism). If you see someone who cannot accept a feature of Judaism, you can assume that they have accepted a “higher” system that defines their values, and that is why that feature is a problem; the system higher in their hierarchy must win.
What I find singularly fascinating about this observation is that the woman in question was likely completely unaware of this hierarchy. She had probably never observed it or broken it down quite that way. When I think of what my hierarchy of values are, I might say, Judaism first, family second, popular opinion third… but what colors my opinions? Do I really let popular opinion be third?
And do I always filter my decisions through the lens of Judaism? What of when Judaism and family conflict – then what?
What do you think of Rabbi Tatz’s assertion? What’s your hierarchy of values? What wins out in a conflict?
Loosely related post: Mechitza-phobia
Wow, this really resonates with me as a secular feminist who was raised a Hindu and is now rediscovering it through a yoga-lens. I think Rabi Tatz has hit the nail on the head with this assertion. I am curious about his book. Do you think it will appeal to a more general reader?
-maya
Maya,
Are you Jewish? (Your name could be.) Either way, I think you will find the book fasicinating. See for yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Buddhist-Jew-Akiva-Tatz/product-reviews/1568713568/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt/184-4826449-8537041?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
I can't even identify what my hierarchy is, but I'm positive it exists! And I think it changes a little over time.
One of the classic exercises for self examination of your value hierarchy is the Amalekite baby problem. Co-incidentally, R. Gil Student has an article about that issue today on Hirhurim.
I think that few people make their hierarchy of values explicit because the top level terms are too broad. When I say I am a feminist, I am using the definition of feminism as 'the radical belief that women are people too.' . Someone who followed feminism as understood by Andrea Dworkin or Catherine MacKinnon would draw very different values. The same, l'havdil applies to Judaism – a litvak draws different values from Judaism than a tikkun olam oriented reform Jew.
Thanks for this clarification, Larry, I agree with your point that one's own interpretation of one's own 'top level terms' is decisive and probably makes it hard to line up different people's hierarchies for comparison. (And btw I am glad to see you on the blog, I have enjoyed your posts in the past.)
And now I've read up on the Amalekite baby problem, thanks for the reference. This sets up a much more doctrinal hierarchy of values, not focused on my personal 'arete' as I describe in my own post below. In response to this my values would be:
1. Humanism. No killing babies, nor even adult Amalekites, even if we could identify them and even if they were people who did wrong things in their own lifetimes.
2. Rationalism. Beliefs have to be tested for reasonableness and that includes humaneness.
3. Pragmatism. How can we work things out to try and avoid people falling into situations like this.
Or what 'hierarchy of values' do you imagine might respond to the Amalekite issue? I guess for some people Judaism would mean that killing the babies is God's commandment? But surely this has to be a misunderstanding.
Really, you need to read the chapter in its entirety – "Traditions" – pp. 183-201 in the book. He addresses the Amalekite issue and many others.
But here's a super interesting perspective that he offers on page 191:
"…it is not accidental that we who find this area difficult to understand are not asked to fulfill it in practice."
In truth, most of the difficult commandments (difficult rationally, not physically) such as animal sacrifices and the like, are not actually practiced today, even by strictly Torah-observant Jews.
Coincidence?
Hm, just discussing animal sacrifices in class today… Won't we do that again in the time of mashiach? I hope to be there to be part of the new world order and yet I instinctively shudder at the thought of animal sacrifice.
Ayelet – the same God that asked us to sacrifice animals also.imbued us with the trait of empathy.
We live in 2012. When mashiach arrives, spiritual awareness will be far deeper than we can fathom today.
Think about sine if the things we consider normal today (body waxing and plastic surgery cone to mind). One day future generations will likely look back at us with pity and disgust.
Sorry for typos…using my phone!
"When mashiach arrives, spiritual awareness will be far deeper than we can fathom today."
For some reason, that gets me depressed because I just can't picture myself becoming that amazingly aware and does that mean i just won't be a part of it all? Maybe I'm just not made of the right stuff, ya' know?
I used to feel that way. But my natural optimism prevailed. "The world will be filled with the awareness of God like the water covers the seas." It will be in our oxygen. For now I believe that God understands our sometimes imperfect journey.
Hmmm…Gotta get me some of that optimism! 😉 Thanks, Ruchi, for the chizuk and for your awesome blog.
🙂 you're sweet!
wow, that was so thought provoking, particularly the last sentence. There ARE features of Judaism that I cannot and do not accept and it is because I value other things more, but never want to throw the baby out with the bath water – I love being Jewish, even when it is inconvenient or difficult. But what really surprised me in your blog was your own hierarchy – that Judaism comes before family. I think that necessitates thought – I would never "rate" my values that way – my family comes before my Judaism without a question. What an interesting debate.
Susan
I was likewise surprised at Ruchi's hierarchy–namely at 'popular opinion' being up there at all. I'm guessing 'popular' in her case means not 'what everyone thinks' but probably what some subset of people think whom Ruchi respects highly, and who share her Torah-observant values. Which if I'm right makes that 'popular opinion' kind of a subset of 'Judaism'.
Susan, I think you would. It becomes hard to define, though. Like, I would disappoint a family member over an issue in Judaism, but that's because ultimately I believe I'm benefiting my family.
Likewise, you'd put safety over family (withhold what your child wants if you feel it's unsafe) if you deem it in the best interests of your family.
Re: popular opinion, yes, I'm talking about the people I respect, which automatically means they'd respect my Jewish values. Still, conflicts arise. I'm not saying I'd always prevail in those conflicts either, but if I chose something lower on the hierarchy, I wouldn't feel proud of myself.
Ok Ruchi, I agree with you on those points. I go to shul on Saturdays regardless of whom in my family that inconveniences – but I can see situations where I would not. That has to do with my level of observance, for sure. If my out of state son were coming to visit me and the only day he would be in town would be Saturday, I would probably break Shabbat because I'd be so desperate to see him. Where does that put me in the hierarchy? Such an interesting examination.
Yes and also his orientation would factor in. If Judaism is likewise "up there" for him that would probably make your decision a whole lot easier.
Ruchi, this is so thought-provoking, thanks. What a wonderful way to start my week, thinking about what is most important in my life. I can't decide how to define my top-level terms (see my reply to Larry), and they don't fit in with 'doctrines' of yoga or Judaism or whatever. I guess I would subsume all my terms to the idea of arete: in ancient Greek, this means something like 'being one's best' or living up to one's potential. This comes down to a few distinct areas that are for me most important:
a. As a mom (yikes, the area where I feel the most conflicted, feel sometimes like a failure and think I should always be better)
b. In my profession, where I love what I do but certain parts of it I procrastinate on and get caught up in self-defeating self-doubt
c. As a friend to my friends; this is not that hard to do but it is important to me
I'm also a feminist, and a Jew, but Judaism to me is more an identity than a set of doctrines, so it doesn't have the same 'values' implications as it does to many of the other posters here. I guess I would have to put 'leftism' somewhere in my hierarchy of values, but that is also a contested term, and mine is different than a lot of other people's, so I would need to think about this.
You put mom first. What happens when the kids grow up? (And by the way, many moms feel like you!)
I think what your said about Judaism being an identity than a set of doctrines – that's very key. What does that mean? Could that be a major difference between Reform Jews and Orthodox Jews? Identity v. Doctrine?
Mom issue: good question. Upon reflection, I think I didn't really answer the question you posed. My gloss on 'arete' was less about a hierarchy of values than a hierarchy of concrete issues to which I give priority, and those will clearly change with time. Arete is the top and only value, namely being my best, and then that can apply in different concrete areas. So it's not really a fair reply to the excellent question of hierarchies of values.
I guess I don't really have 'DOCTRINES of values' that I follow as doctrines, although I have VALUES that I follow, and these would be, rethinking my answer to the question more faithfully: try to do what is right, try to be kind, try to be grateful. Where do I get the answer to 'what is right'? I guess it's circular–what is the best I can do that is kind and just in a situation. I don't have an 'ism' to follow, although I consider humanism and leftism important.
The identity vs. doctrine question is HUGE. I bet Leah Weiss Caruso has a more informed view on this than I do. I believe that Reform Judaism is NOT just about identity, that there is in fact Reform doctrine, or specific emphases in Reform values (like tikkun olam), and also specifically Reform ideas (on a spectrum, maybe not so different from the spectrum of Orthodoxy) as to how to interpret Torah and what is permissible in that. To Orthodox people Reform seems 'less Jewish'–we've touched on this before in this blog. From an Orthodox perspective, I guess that 'less Jewish' and 'less doctrine' makes sense as a characterization of Reform Judaism, given what Orthodoxy takes as observant Judaism; but from a Reform perspective, no–there is doctrine there, there are values, there are principles of interpretation, and so forth.
I think that 'Reform Judaism' as a designation covers both people who follow Reform doctrine AS doctrine, and people who are more interested in Judaism as an identity without having much knowledge of doctrine. I put myself in the middle of those two. Probably more the latter, actually.
I LOVE this thread. Really thought provoking. Thanks.
🙂 Thank YOU for the really thoughtful responses.
"Where do I get the answer to what is right?" That's a HUGE question right there with a vague answer. Especially considering that our perspective as humans is necessarily quite limited besides being dreadfully biased…
(I'm loving this thread too!)
I think a great deal of my serenity in life comes specifically from having that "ism" – Judaism. So I don't feel that I have to flounder with that particular question.
Maybe one reason I don't have an 'ism' to follow is that I don't think of any of the 'isms' as unified, consistent across a variation of practices and beliefs, or fully defined. The big-value 'Ism' terms include so many different variations that it is hard to just name the term and then know what that term would entail with respect to values. (I think this is Larry's point again; even people within an 'ism' can disagree heartily as to what values it entails.) That would for me include Judaism–even within Orthodoxy, as I've learned on this blog, there are so many differences in interpretation and practice, and then like I said above there seem to be spectra within Reform and other parts of Judaism. So I'm still left wondering what IS Judaism that one can follow it? Isn't one always following a certain interpretation or style of Judaism? I don't mean to put into question your Judaism, Ruchi, or anyone else's on this blog, but instead just to indicate that I am learning here how rich and varied the definitions are when it comes to what it means to 'follow Judaism' and be confident in the definition one uses.
yes, that's true. And even though within judaism there are different ways to manage dilemmas, I still have serenity knowing that it comes first and ultimately what I wish to be answerable to. Whatever your judaism is. In other words, if you are a reform jew, learn what that stands for. If you are a conservative jew learn what that stands for. Then decide where in your scale of priorities you are placing it. As opposed to haphazard decisions colored by other factors that aren't actually important to you.
So this raises some big questions for me about where the yearning FOR rightness comes from, rather than where the specific guidelines come from, and how Judaism fits into that:
Do you think, Ruchi (and others), that Judaism is what makes you want to do the right thing? You seem like someone who through-and-through CARES about doing the right thing, and so you turn to Judaism for the guidelines, but is it Judaism that makes you care, or do you "first care" about what is right and then have Judaism give you your guidelines? Obviously Judaism as an ideal cares about what is right, and even more obviously so does God care about what is right, but on its own Judaism in my opinion can't MAKE someone care about what is right (which is why some people who outwardly practice Judaism can nonetheless do despicable things).
Are there other sources of "caring about the right thing" than Judaism (and other 'isms'), or do you think that Judaism has a special access to "caring about the right thing"? Even incomplete, or misunderstood, Judaism might be part of someone's life who truly cares about the right thing, so who gets the credit for that, Judaism or the person?
I can imagine that God gets the credit in any case, for sure, but apart from that–since we have talked about free will and people's ability to do bad things even while professing to follow Judaism–how much of caring about the right thing is our own choice, and Judaism gives us the values to then follow if we care?
Sorry for being pretty abstract here.
Believe it or not, I've wondered the same thing myself. I'll just frame it in terms of myself: Does my desire to do the right thing manifest itself because I've been raised in an environment and context as such? Or is that the makeup of my unique soul and if I would have been raised differently I would have simply channeled that drive elsewhere (politics?). Yes, I have wondered this. Here's what I think. Every human being has an inner drive to strive for accomplishment and achievement. For some (depending on how their soul is wired) this will manifest in spiritual ways. For others, financial success, social climbing, or even making a mark in a negative way. But the Jewish soul wishes to be satisfied with uniquely Jewish food. It may find other ways to fill up (Jewish kids in cults or Buddhism) but ultimately craves Jewish spirituality. This may manifest in philanthropy, social justice etc. I never thought this was a controversial idea but discovered once that some people don't appreciate being told their "secular" activities are driven by their soul… oh, well! Curious what you think about that, SBW.
Thanks for this beautiful description. I feel like I have learned a lot about you with this.
1. I think that for the most part we care about what is right, or not, because we are brought up that way, although there are exceptions on both sides (people brought up to care who don't, people brought up not to care but do). I don't believe that any 'ism' can make us yearn for the good, because only that yearning for the good opens us to following the 'ism' in the first place (which is why people can end up with misguided, cruel or destructive 'isms' and yet believe they are doing the right thing).
2. That 'drive to strive for accomplishment' is just what I meant by 'arete' in my earlier attempt to answer the question, you said it perfectly.
3. The idea of the Jewish soul and its Jewish nourishment is lovely the way you write it. But here we are very different. I have trouble accepting it. I guess I don't think of Jewishness as an essence, perhaps I conceive it more as a constellation of many possible elements (including but not limited to Orth. beliefs; Reform beliefs; Jewish identity without belief; Jewish parentage without belief or identity). So I don't think of souls as being Jewish or not, or at least not in a clearcut way. And I'm not so sure about soul in the first place! And then in addition, because Jewish spirituality can be so many different things, a craving that is satisfied BY any one of the many things it can be is not the same thing as a craving for a specific something that can be easily defined as "Jewish spirituality".
What a rare pleasure to have interlocutors who appreciate this kind of exchange.
Could not agree more with your final sentence!! 🙂
Re: your final paragraph, yes, this is a big difference between the way you and I view the reality of being Jewish. Is it an inherent, genetic identity/reality or not? That is the crux of the difference. We've doggy-paddled in these waters before…
Ruchi said:
In truth, most of the difficult commandments (difficult rationally, not physically) such as animal sacrifices and the like, are not actually practiced today, even by strictly Torah-observant Jews.
Coincidence?
Larry comments: Definitely not coincidence. For example, chazal abolished the use of the Sotah ritual. The reasoning they gave was that in their day adultery was too common and so the ritual ceased to be effective. How much of the decision to abolish its use )was because the use of trial by ordeal was no longer considered moral?
On the other hand there are certainly parts of Judaism I find morally objectionable that have not been abolished. Many of these rules are simply ignored (or have not been taught) to many Jews (even O Jews) but it is considered inappropriate to draw public attention to them.
That's a really interesting way of looking at it, Larry.
What then would you say is your scale of hierarchy?
@Larry: Now you've got me really curious! What have we been ignoring? You can message me privately…;)
My decision making process is more like wrestling than resolving a hierarchy. When I have a moral decision to make, I try to figure out (by studying and by consulting with rabbonim) what the halachic response is, if it isn't obvious. If I find the decision response immoral or unpalatable, then the wrestling begins. Who is hurt by my following the halacha? How badly are they hurt? How visible is what I'm going to do, and how will that reflect on other people's perception of my Judaism and myself. Often while asking myself these questions I will go back to the sources and the rabbis with further questions.
I can say what I think in a variety of dialects. Let's try a few to see if that gives a well rounded perspective. Ultimately I am unwilling to make the principles of being mevatal daas (nullifying your own intelligence and accepting the decisions of someone smarter) and of emunat chachim (trust in the wise men of the community) the primary values of my Judaism. Put another way, we could have used the term Islam (submission) first if we wanted to, it was free for a number of centuries before Muhamad grabbed it. It must mean something that we didn't. Put still another way, it is a betrayal of the idea that I will not be asked 'Why was I not Moses' but rather 'Why was I not Larry' if every time I have a different opinion than my rabbi I follow the rabbi's view, not my own. I'm willing to and have decided to follow the wrong answer because it is the halachic one. I'm not willing to concede that my choices are to do that or to be sinning.
I hope this helps a little – compared to the well written responses I've seen to date this seems emotional and incoherent. I'm not really in a good place for calm rational thinking but I hope this helps.
It does and I appreciate your candor.
I will add: if someone wishes to be an halachic jew, let him search hard for a rabbi who can help him merge his moral compass with fidelity to jewish law. Overwhelmingly, he exists.
http://outoftheorthobox.blogspot.com/2012/01/ask-rabbi.html
OK, now I feel like I need an attitude adjustment for disliking a book you are "breathtaking in love" with. Isn't it ironic that a book I've been anticipating the end of I will now have to read TWICE?
Twice?
I've been thinking about our book compatibility.
I think the reason it's not true in this case is that it's more text than book. And highly, personally obligating.
As Larry intimates, the top level of a hierarchy for all of us is "social norms" and not anything else. This is true even for those of us who don't realize it- society and religious norms influence each other, but ultimately societal norms win out. Hence no current amaleikite baby problem, rapist getting fined problem, slavery problem, etc. – MP
MP, I would respectfully disagree. While to some extent you are right – because we tend to surround ourselves with people that are sympathetic to our particular hierarchies – in my world, I buck social norms all the time. Of course, I travel within different "norms" so there are always *some* people who think I'm normal (phew).
It's interesting… I am only able to put Judaism/my relationship with Hashem at the top of my hierarchy to the extent that I know about it. The more I learn, the better position I will be in to make those hard decisions. The less I know about what the Torah has to say, the louder the other voices (popular opinion, rationalism, etc.) become.
I wonder if this is the case for other people as well, or if I am alone in this…
Not alone! Note that in the original example, the highest sphere was yoga – the woman was a yogi. Of course she knew a lot about yoga. If something is going to be your hightest value, you better learn about it. So if someone says being Jewish is very important to them, it would follow then that learning more about that body of identity would be equally important. Conversely, sometimes something becomes important because you have learned a lot about it. Judaism is very important to me precisely because of the education I've received and the total immersion I've experienced (not literally).
Ruchi,
Hypothetically, if your husband came home, announced that your rav paskened that Rabbeinu Gershom's decree was lifted and he was marrying a second wife, you posit that your reaction would reflect Torah morality and not social norms? Really? – MP
MP, I think this falls under the category of mitzvos that are hard for us to understand – no coincidence that we are not asked to live that way now. In that vein, just because something is *permissible* by Torah doesn't make it compulsory. Also, I think your question would have more to do with the nature of our marriage than anything else. If he came home and announced that we were moving to Israel, or starting to accept some stringency in Judaism, I would wonder what happened to the respect and communication in our marriage. And finally, as far as this specific example, most second wives in the Torah were suggested by the first wife as a spiritual merit to have children – and usually considered plan B.
This is the social norms response 🙂
The Torah Morals response would have been : Great honey! When does she move in? Isha Ksheira Osa Ratzon Ba'ala.
🙂 funny! But I disagree that God would expect that of me. My opinion.
Ruchi–so how do you interpret the "Isha ksheira…" statement in the Gemara?
exactly as written, without taking it to unrealistic extremes – which I think the second wife example is.
Translation please?
Who is a worthy wife? She who does her husband's will.
OMG WHAT A DISCUSSION!!! I'm SO late to this party, and there are so many people I want to respond to OMG how did I miss this???? Ya'll rock.
I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just respond to SBW and say thanks for thinking of me and thanks for the compliment – it's such a loooooooong answer perhaps I'll blog about it.
My own hierarchy – I 've never considered this. I guess I'll go with Ruchi that it's Judaism, family, and then um, everything else? I will switch out the first two periodically under exceptional circumstances, but for the most part that's it.
Hi there friend! Was hoping you'd weigh in.
I've been swamped with house stuff – we're trying to get it on the market in the next few weeks holy cow it's SO much work.
What an important observation. I have to think about it! We should ALL be thinking about it.
I've been tossing this around in my head for a few days. I still need to think about my overall priorities… but I am reminded of what happened shortly after I got married and told my mom that I wanted to spend some of my Friday nights at home with my husband (and maybe some friends) rather than at the usual family dinner. She was surprised and hurt, exclaiming, "but Shabbat is about family!" my inner voice piped up: "I thought Shabbat was about rest and holiness?" So you see, even when Judaism and family are the two priorities, there are micro-considerations… whose understanding of Judaism? and what about Judaism's imperative to respect and honour your parents? It gets very complicated very quickly.
Absolutely. I had missed one family seder in 43 years (I had chicken pox when I was 5) and the fact that I can't attend them(*) any longer because I am traditionally observant is difficult for all of us to handle. Chazal have a definite answer for this. They say the reason the Torah says at one point (not in the 10 commandments) "Honor your mother and father and keep my sabbaths" is to show that if your parents tell you not to keep the mitzvot you are not to listen to them. That doesn't make it easy, though.
Azriella Jaffe, in her book What Do You Mean, You Can't Eat in My Home?: A Guide to How Newly Observant Jews and Their Less Observant Relatives Can Still Get Along makes the excellent point that a lot of fighting over religious observance is actually about insecurity – the non-observant relatives perceive at some level that you love the halacha more than you love them. On the other hand, I have seen religious people use the restrictions as an excuse to get out of family obligations. To me this is a violation of the rule "Do not make a crown out of the Torah, nor a spade with which to dig." If both sides believe that everyone is trying hard to accommodate each other, 80% of the time something can be reached, and people can live with the 20% because they don't take it personally.
(*) In principle we could stay at the place of one of the two sedarim each year alternately, but the logistics are just too daunting.
Scj, ah…but your new husband is now your family…well, thats how JUDAISM defines it, at least:)
Larry, you make some excellent points there…thank you.